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Linux - which flavour?

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superstar - member
230 posts
Yes, i realise that Google will give me 10 million pages on this subject, but i'd value the opinion of fellow botters/programmers/geeks/nerds/whatever we are. About 4 or 5 months ago, i ditched Windows and installed Ubuntu 8.04. It was my very first taste of Linux....and now i'm hooked.

I've spent several months getting to grips with Ubuntu, and now i feel it's time for a clean install in order to get rid of all the stuff i installed but no longer need. I've tried Xubuntu but didn't like it. I'm going to install KDE desktop into Ubuntu to see if Kubuntu would be nicer. I have spent several hours on DistroWatch but all the flavours seem to be very much the same. At present, it's looking likely that i'll just install Ubuntu 8.10, however i'm wondering what you Linux guys think of Kubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora, Debian, Slackware, Solaris, etc, etc? As i say, they're pretty much the same, so it's most likely that i'll stick with Ubuntu, however GENTOO does interest me. It's not the packaging...it's the compilation thing that intrigues me...by compiling Gentoo on your target pc, it supposedly creates an O.S. which is optimized to suit your hardware? Is it true? Is it worth the hassle?


EDIT: Forgot to ask about 64-bit editions. My PC is an oldish home build with an AMD 64 3000+ processor. Up until now, i've never actually tried installing a 64-bit O.S. due to the fact that most apps are still written/compiled to 32-bit. Is it worth installing a 64-bit flavour of Linux or is it just asking for trouble?
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regular - member
134 posts

I don't think there is any right answer. I'm no linux guy but I use it. If ubuntu works well on your hardware and you're familiar with it then there's little point changing, unless of course you like change/challenge. I think on most distros you can recompile the linux kernel in order to better suit the host machine - but I believe that's mostly a case of leaving things out so that during boot the machine doesn't spend half a minute probing for things that aren't present.

I tried the 64 bit ubuntu temporarily, afraid I can't recall what caused me to switch back to 32, maybe a graphics driver issue. I installed my current ubuntu using the alternate installer so that I could have a fully encrypted system.

superstar - member
230 posts
I am a firm believer in "if it aint broke, don't fix it", so my reasons for wanting a clean install are:

1) Being a total newbie to linux, i've done a lot of playing around installing and removing various apps, mostly just to find out what is available and what i like/what suits my needs. So i have a lot of unwanted crap that a clean install will remove.
2) Ever since installing Ubuntu 8.04, i've had a problem where the boot up freezes. I posted on the Ubuntu forums but only ever got  one reply...who suggested it was a Kernel bug. Not very helpful at all. Despite several Kernel upgrades, the problem still exists, so i was thinking that maybe the Ubuntu 8.10 kernel may resolve my problem.

Perhaps i should investigate compiling my own kernel? Then i'd have the best of both worlds. Laughing


I installed my current ubuntu using the alternate installer so that I could have a fully encrypted system.

-fred77


Hmmmm...not quite sure what you mean? I obviously know what encryption is, but how does that apply to a whole O.S??
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novice - member
45 posts

Although most distros can be made to do any job, all tend to have strengths in different areas. For a general purpose desktop machine, Ubuntu seems to have all the momentum at the moment - I'm using it on one old laptop (8.04 lts) and one desktop (8.10 with all the compiz bells and whistles). It's certainly not perfect, but it is easy (as far as installing apps and such goes). I see it as a Windows replacement, with all the focus being on the 'end user' experience.

My other machine runs Slackware, and I basically use it as an all-purpose server. It runs my gateway, firewall, MySql server, apache, CUPS server and printer, NFS server with a couple of big external drives and all my botting stuff. Slackware is ideal for this sort of thing - the focus is on 'under the bonnet' stuff, and the config files are a joy, especially compared to the tangled mess which is the Ubuntu /etc directory. Package management is a bit basic, and some less common stuff may require building from source (although this is incredibly easy compared to Ubuntu).

I used Red Hat for a while in 2001, before they split it up into RHEL and Fedora. That was fine back in the day, but when I got serious with linux in 2005 I tried Fedora and it was a dog - the 'stable' version felt very 'beta'-ish. This may have changed since, but the feeling I get from the web is that it hasn't.

gentoo isn't an operating system, it's a religion. About a year ago there was a load of internecine strife, and it's very existence seemed to be in doubt. It seems to have come through that, but it's reputation as a 'serious' distro has suffered. I haven't actually tried it, so it may be fine, but I don't think custom compiling *everything* is worth the extra effort. (Kernels are a different matter, but you can do that on most distros).

As far as support from forums goes, Ubuntu is pretty crap - they are friendly enough, but I think that is part of the problem. Too many threads asking the same questions and too many 'helpful' newbies replying on topics they don't really understand. I had a problem with the Bluetooth stack in 8.04 which turned out to be quite common - half a dozen threads, twenty different theories and no solution. I found the answer in five minutes on a debian forum because the problem was upstream, but if you have an Ubuntu-specific glitch then you are shafted.

Slackware forums, especially http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/ , are great. You get replies from people who know what they are talking about, quite often from people involved with the distro (Pat never replies himself, but Alien Bob does, usually in great detail)

64-bit distros seem pretty good for server apps, but they all seem to have a lot of niggly problems on the desktop (hardware support, firefox, flash etc.). It seems like the 32-bit linux desktop situation of five years ago - most things have a fix, but you may have to jump through hoops. (No personal experience here, I have one 64-bit AMD machine, but it's only running 32-bit Ubuntu)

superstar - member
230 posts
Thanks for the reply. There's an old saying "better the devil you know", so i guess Ubuntu is where i'll stay...although i'm gonna have a play with the Kubuntu Live CD before i make a final decision.

On a completely different topic, a bloke my dad sees in the pub on occasion gave hime a tip yesterday. It was Trimlestown in the 9.20 at Wolverhampton tonight...and guess who totally forgot about it until about 10 mins after the race ended. Must take this more seriously, as he's given my dad 6 winners in 6 tips over the last year or so...and ALL trained by PD Evans. He must be in the know...or very, VERY lucky....
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regular - member
134 posts

Hmmmm...not quite sure what you mean? I obviously know what encryption is, but how does that apply to a whole O.S??

-birchy


I forget the details, but it's something along the lines of all partitions are encrypted apart from a few files on a small partition that are needed to initiate booting. The boot process stops and asks for the password so that it can mount the encrypted partitions and continue normal startup. Even the swap space is encrypted. Once running all the encryption is totally transparent, though naturally there is a small overhead. Basically it means that if my PC or laptop is stolen there is nothing on them ANYWHERE that can be used for identity theft, none of my work files can be retrieved etc. Great stuff for the paranoid amongst us lol

superstar - member
230 posts
I see. Certainly useful if you own a laptop that goes outside the house regularly, and i guess useful for a pc...if being burgled is not unlikely. Personally, i have nothing of much use to anyone...and i'd get fed up of typing my password every time i needed hard drive access.
Laughing
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regular - member
134 posts

I'm an eco terrorist, I leave my PC switched on permanently, so I only need to enter my decryption key if I reboot (ie not very often). I got fed-up lugging my laptop around so now it just stays at a friend's house. If my bots have major issues they text me and if I'm out and about then I just use my phone's browser to check what's up.

Back to the topic, my choice of linux for my bot servers is debian. I just use the minimal install and add the very few items I need, keeps things lean and secure. As ubuntu is based on debian things are familiar.

regular - member
184 posts
birchy, the alternate installer is an image you download which instead of being a live CD, installs from the CD using an ncurses installer. You don't get all the bells and whistles of the installer, but the installation (from my experience anyway) is generally cleaner and more reliable. In addition, because they haven't had to stick all the live CD stuff on the disk, there are a couple of things on the alternate installer image which the live CD doesn't have. They have thought it through though and the stuff left off the live CD is stuff most people won't need anyway. Older wifi drivers and so on.

I always use the alternate install because I feel it gives me more control over the installation, although other people might differ with me on that.

As far as Kubuntu goes, I quite like it. It is more familiar for windows users to first come to grips with and it seems easier to get a handle on if you have just come over from windows. The KDE lads seem to have a philosophy of 'if there are two ways to do something, we'll make it user configurable', which is good if you like to fiddle with things.

I once tried Gentoo and after going through the installation wizard, I hit enter to start the actual installation and all I could get was a message telling me something was wrong. It was a while back, so I forget what it was. I think I set too many kernel flags without fully understanding what they did. I like the idea of Gentoo, but I think the learning curve is fairly steep.

If you don't want to go through the hassle of figuring out how to do the Gentoo thing, have a look at Sabayon, it is based on Gentoo in much the same way that Ubuntu is based on Debian.

64 bit OSs - I used Kubuntu 64 bit on a laptop for over a year with no real hassles. Newish laptop and it didn't seem to matter all that much. If you install the 32 bit packages - there is a special set of libs you can get from the package manager - you should be able to run 32 bit plugins, like flash and so on without too much bother. Just keep in mind that 64bit processing requires slightly more memory overhead, so while some things may be faster, other things may be ever so much slower. It balances out eventually though.

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superstar - member
230 posts
Thanks for the interesting posts. I've wiped my hard drive and created a dedicated partition for GRUB and have installed Ubuntu 8.10. I quite like Kubuntu but have read quite a lot of info regarding the whole KDE vs Gnome debate and the overall impression seems to be that Gnome is more stable, however KDE is more configurable and therefore has it's die-hard fans who seem to enjoy fixing bugs. At the end of the day, i can always install the kde-desktop and/or run "K" apps if i need them. I guess it's no coincidence that Ubuntu is number one on DistroWatch's download table.

Incidentally, the install of 8.10 with its newer kernel seems to have sorted my random startup problem. Next job is to crack on and learn Python... Laughing
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superstar - member
230 posts

Oh yeah, i forgot to ask something that seems to be Linux related. I have Firefox 3.0.4 which came with Ubuntu. The Betdaq website doesn't load properly. I've enabled Javascript (i use the NoScript plugin in Firefox) and i've installed the Adobe plugin that it asked for, yet certain pages still don't display correctly. The poker page is fine, as is "Next horse race", yet the homepage looks like the image below.

Seems to be fine on my mate's pc...he has Windows XP and Firefox 3.0.3. I notice that under the Betdaq help pages, they only suggest support for Firefox 1.5 and 2.0. It seems to be a simple settings/plugins job to me....anyone know how to get Betdaq running in Firefox 3.0.4 on a Linux box?

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novice - member
45 posts

The page works fine on my laptop - Ubuntu 8.04, Firefox 3.0.4, AdBlock Plus and NoScript - So like you say probably a settings thing. Does it happen on any other pages? Have you got any weird settings for javascript/ asp pages in Preferences -> Applications ?
What is the little icon in the bottom right hand corner, next to the NoScript snake? If it's some sort of DOM inspector or debugger, have you tried disabling it?
Well that's me out of ideas - (turn it off and back on again? clear the cache?) If you need to check any settings, either in Preferences or about:config, let me know. I was going to post my entire about:config, but it's probably not a good idea in a public forum

regular - member
184 posts
birchy the other thing worth doing is installing VirtualBox and trying out some of these distros in a virtual machine - just create a ten gig space and install it into it. Its not hard at all and you get a really good idea of how each distro works. I dunno whether you have tried virtual machines yet, but if you haven't, they are amazing. You can take them to the point where you have a virtual machine running full screen at the right resolution and actually forget you are running it as a virtual machine. Happened to me a few times, to the point where I have missed a bus because I had to shut something down twice.
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superstar - member
230 posts
I remember i once tried a virtual machine thing in Windows about a year ago, but couldn't make head nor tail of it...so haven't bothered since. But i do wonder if i need a virtual machine when a LiveCD will do the same? I'm quite happy with this fresh install of Ubuntu 8.10...well, so far... lol

As for Betdaq/Firefox, the little icon next to NoScript is a security warning from Firefox. It says "Warning: contains unauthenticated content". Betdaq is the only site that doesn't display properly, and it was the same under Ubuntu 8.04. I'm guessing it's a security certificate problem? I'll Google it ans see how i get on...
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