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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#21 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:14

15 June 2013 01:19 AM

Welcome!

There are a few Aussies lurking around here, but not sure who's who. Good luck with the bots and don't be afraid to ask questions, no matter how stupid they may seem.

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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cran

bot addict

Posts: 72 Member Since:June 11, 2013

#23 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:14

16 June 2013 15:07


Hi Chumby, and everyone else...
Also just joined.

Originally from the UK but now live mostly in Basel (Swissland) but sometimes in France in the ski season and Spain in the summer...

Have BF bots in VB and Betdaq bots in C# running on VPS

Most of my bots stopped making money when cross matching was introduced, but I have a couple of really simple strategies (that I originally just used for testing bot code, not expecting any profits but have left running since 3 years ago because they do still make money and actually more in the last 12 months).

I'm learning Python as I have a part time 50% IT job now in a mixed Mac and Windows environment and Python works on both...

Might as well learn by updating my bots.

Main objective is to write api classes for BF and Betdaq that let me use the same bot code on either and run them on any VPS.  Secondary goal is to match/compare markets just in case I can find any arb opportunities, but not expecting much there as the prices are pretty much in sync now, but maybe some opportunity in low volume markets, who knows...

Anyway... Hi  

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towack

rookie botter

Posts: 1 Member Since:July 22, 2013

#24 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:14

23 July 2013 18:27

Hello all

I am towack from Merseyside, UK and I have been using Betfair for about 12 months now. 
My main interest is football/ horse racing trading for small amounts.I do have some programming experience but I am new to Python/ API but I cant wait to get stuck in and create bots for trading.

Cheers

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#25 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:14

23 July 2013 19:03

Good to see some new lambs to the slaughter. Stick at...you WILL be successful if you're willing to put the effort in.

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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spamgalorepls

rookie botter

Posts: 6 Member Since:August 9, 2013

#26 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

13 August 2013 09:35 AM

Hey everyone, I guess I'm the first to bump this thread in a while..
I've been on Betfair for quite a while now, my field of expertise is tennis.. not that anyone cares .But for those who don't know.. trading live tennis matches day in and day out can  make your hair grey prematurely.
I'm currently looking to free up some of my time and at the same time, to see how these bots work, since I've been trading or so long now and never actually tried one. 
Having almost no programming knowledge, I tried the gruss excel bot and didn't really understand it, so I continued to look, and found this tutorial https://github.com/AlgoTrader/betfair-sports-api/wiki, but it's incomplete and way above my level of understanding, I mean I was able to log in, and get markets, but apart from that, nothing.
So having wasted about a week looking for help and tutorials, and reading a quarter of a book about javascript and watching tutorials .. I have made some progress in understanding the code, but I'm still very far away from being able to program such an application.. frustrated and sick of wasting time, I went ahead and hired a programmer to create one for me, it should be ready soon and I can't wait to see how it goes.
Nonetheless my goal is to be able to create one myself and be able to test some of the ideas that I have, so I will continue to look at the guides and tutorials in this forum..
The programmer said he will use VB.net for this, but I really have no idea about what programming language I should be trying to learn.. for know I only know the basics of JavaScript.
Anyway enough from me.. see you around I guess :) By the way any ideas about how to get myself started would be kindly appreciated.

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#27 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

13 August 2013 12:18

Hello! Welcome to the forum. Seems like you've tried to learn too many things at once. This is probably a good place to start:

http://diybetfairbots.lefora.com/2013/03/17/betfair-api6-tutorials/#post0

Pick a language and stick with it. Python is probably the easiest of all but you might prefer something Microsoft based like VB.net...

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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bogorman

rookie botter

Posts: 23 Member Since:August 13, 2013

#29 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

21 August 2013 04:06 PM

Hi.
New to the forum. Been playing around with bot ideas for a long time but got serious about it about 2 years ago. Going well so far. I've worked in the financial industry in London as a programmer for many years in C++ and C# but i chose to use Ruby for my bot as an experiment. Ruby is great at getting things done but can be slow to run so had an interesting few months fighting with Ruby to make it have the response times i was looking for. In the end i ended up rewriting the core bits in Java and and the rest is till in Ruby. I would recommend Ruby for doing this kind of work. I am starting to work on a BetDaq interface but there is none for Ruby so may use the Java one instead as from what i have seen from the BetDaq interface so far the SOAP interface is too painful. Hope they get their act together and they produce a JSON api soon.  
Cheers,
Barry

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#30 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

24 August 2013 06:26 AM

Hi Barry. Welcome to the forum. You might have some luck with gsoap if you know C++? I think Ruby and Python are pretty much on the same level - rapid development but not the fastest thing in the world. I keep meaning to look at Python's C/C++ module development but never have enough time!

Keep us posted, there's a serious lack of Betdaq code for newbies. If enough of us get on the bandwagon, it should increase their liquidity enough to start attracting a few more punters from Betfair...

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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bogorman

rookie botter

Posts: 23 Member Since:August 13, 2013

#31 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

24 August 2013 07:30 AM

Will do. I'm going to maybe look at wrapping the Betdaq API in a JSON interface myself as i want to use it in Ruby and Java and i wont want to have to write 2 different versions. I'm not sure at the moment how easy it would be but should know more in a few days. There is an existing Java API for betdaq so just expose those actions though a json interface is what i'm thinking now. If it goes well and is usable i'll open source it and put up some examples but too early to say yet. 

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jimmybob

rookie botter

Posts: 15 Member Since:August 28, 2013

#32 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

09 September 2013 07:12 AM

Hi, I'm new to the forum.

I was intrigued with Betfair when I first encountered it in 2007 and I played around with a few bot type programs.  Since then, I've got a lot better at programming and I figure it would now be fun and educational to try to make a proper bot.  I'm concentrating on Betdaq at the moment.  So far, I have written a basic interface to their SOAP API in Python, which I hope I can soon share with you guys soon (I'm not sure something like this exists for Betdaq at the moment?).

From browsing the forum, I can see that a lot of people are using Python to build their bots so hopefully I will be able to help others with this as well as learn a thing or two.

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#33 [url]

October 11, 2013 16:11:15

09 September 2013 01:10 PM

Welcome to the forum jimmybob!

Yeah, Python seems to be the language of choice...probably because it is so productive and has plenty of easy to use networking/http/soap/parsing tools.

I have an unfinished Betdaq library and I know that Cran is also working on one. Then there's bogorman and yourself, so we will soon be overwhelmed by betdaq libraries!

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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DrSpeck

rookie botter

Posts: 2 Member Since:October 13, 2013

#34 [url]

October 14, 2013 03:59:35

Hi All

I've been mucking around with Betfair and automated systems for a couple of years now. My background is in software development and data warehouse / data mining, so there has been a natural fit to recording, analysing and implementing data and strategies. Getting my first strategies up and running I found extremely easy using C# with SQL Server database; getting the actual strategy right not so much. Unfortunately nothing that has really come off yet, but at least my balance stays positive for a lot longer than it used to! Always trying new things, as usual I have one right now that looks promising, but how many times have we said that before?? 

Look forward to hearing from others' experience through this forum. 

There is always light at the end of the tunnel, I just wish I could stop building more tunnel!

Tom

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#35 [url]

October 14, 2013 23:15:21

Hi DrSpeck, welcome to the forum!

It's good to have some more members with programming skills, particularly those with data mining experience as most people seem to start out with back testing.

We're all very familiar with the old "this looks promising" scenario but the one thing I've learnt over the years is that most people hit the stop button at the first signs of a down-swing. Now that I'm older (and wiser!?) I've realised that you need several thousand matched bets to prove a strategy. Even now, my most profitable bot has down-swings that can last anything between a few days to a month (which is thousands of bets), but long term I have the confidence to know it will come good in the end. Despite that, the pessimistic question "is this the start of the end?" is always in our minds at any noticeable dip in profits. I guess it's just human nature...

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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DrSpeck

rookie botter

Posts: 2 Member Since:October 13, 2013

#36 [url]

October 15, 2013 03:24:55

Back testing really does open up a can of worms. You have to be so careful not to allow your training data (the back test) to be included in your test data (the forward data). Its so easy to find a set of parameters, or even a single parameter that looks highly profitable as its tuned to the results, but that simply doesnt work going forward.

I'm always looking through those systems published out there just in case they include a nugget, but all the ones I've tested do in fact produce the returns they advertise "since Jan 2012 etc", but never if you go forward from the date they are published, or indeed before the date they specify. Often wonder if that is the way to make decent money out of the whole game - just publishing systems that fit the available data, then make sure everyone on your mailing lists are aware of the occasional subsequent Saturdays they happen to win, as they always will from time to time.

What complicates things further is the low volume on some markets. I can find things that work beautifully back testing, continue to work when the model is applied going forward, until you try and actually place bets at which point you discover that the BSP of several hundred you were seeing in testing turns into, well, just several when you add just a minimum bet into it.

Anyway, enough of a rant. Have work to do!

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JayBee

rookie botter

Posts: 31 Member Since:October 21, 2013

#37 [url]

October 22, 2013 12:07:25

Hello,

I may or may not be new to this site. I probably was but lost my username and password for the old site.

Anyway, I have been a programmer for over 30 years, studied computational finance at university and worked in The City for 6 years. These days I build bots for trading and investigating efficiency in sports markets. Betting markets have intrigued me since I was a small child and my father would call out for numbers to fill in his pools coupon.

I have a blog, which the manual traders/scalpers love to hate at http://www.betfairprotrader.co.uk/ and recently wrote my simplified take on the "greening algorithm". If anyone thinks there is an error in it then let me know but it works for me and is not as convoluted as some that I have seen.

Being an old school pre-OOP programmer the new Betfair API is going to be daunting to these old shoulders so I look forward to any discussion about porting.

Always interested to hear from other bot traders and, of course, I won't be asking you about your systems either.

JayBee.

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#38 [url]

October 22, 2013 17:50:04

Welcome JayBee. That's a nice looking site you have there. I will certainly be studying it when I have a few hours spare.

Your greening up method is what I used back in the days when I was fiddling with trading bots. Back then, the Free API was more restrictive, so I was scraping the website instead. The bonus was that when getting the latest prices, the response also included the P&L for each runner which could then be used to calculate the offsetting bets.

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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JayBee

rookie botter

Posts: 31 Member Since:October 21, 2013

#39 [url]

October 22, 2013 17:54:47

Thanks for the welcome.

I just had a look for the P&L in the API and found it.

When I solve a problem I tend to forget about improving it and never thought of looking further. Thanks for the pointer.

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birchy

Betfair Elite

Posts: 593 Member Since:May 11, 2008

#40 [url]

October 23, 2013 00:32:37

It's possible to use GetMUBets to calculate the P&L and greening bets, but there's a restriction on the number of bets returned, so it's not suitable if you are placing hundreds of bets per market. GetMarketProfitAndLoss solves that but is an extra API call.

www.bespokebots.com

"This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires!"

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